I've discovered this great story while researching about my previous topic (cf Rabbits & Wallabies... 1908)... Here is Daniel Carroll, not even 20, i.e. the yougest member of the 1908 Wallabies squad which won rugby Gold medal at 1908 Olympic Games... He was said to be a fast winger... and scored two tries during the final (vs Cornwall representing Great Britain, final score 32-3)
In 1912, Carroll toured in California with the Wallabies... and stayed to study geology at Standford where he graduated in 1920, aged 32... but served in the US Army during WW1 before ... At Stanford, he played and coached rugby... Because of his outstanding rugby background, he was selected as player and coach of the US rugby Olympic squad at 1920 Olympics in Antwerp... and earned a second gold medal... for USA!
Four years later, having definitely settled in California, he coached US rugby Olympic team in Paris... and won a third gold medal for USA... (I'm not sure that coaches did get medals actually... but he surely deserved it !!)
This great story was totally unknown to me until I googled this Australian sports website... please read Spiro Zavos' paper (Dan Carroll : rugby's greatest Olympian) for full bio and details... (to be honest, the story was also mentioned in Pierre Vitalien's book about rugby at the Olympics... but I've missed it until now... and it also gives me an opportunity to advertise for Pierre's fine book again...)
Edit May 2010 : I got it damn wrong... Carroll never participated to 1924 Olympics in Paris... and the gentleman above is coach Charles Austin... I should never rely on poor sources (such as French wikipedia...). Sorry!
BTW the picture above was shot in Plymouth Rugby Club (thank you Dave for the tip) and here are the names of the players (Left to Right) :
Front Row: Rogers, Hyland, Hunter, O'Neill, Cleveland, Muldoon, Scholz.
Middle Row: Graff, Turkington, Deveraux, Manelli, Doe, Cunningham, Dixon
Back Row (all standingt: Sam Goodman (Manager) (and English, by the way) Valentine, Cashel, Williams, B, Slater (Cpt), Farish, Clark, Patrick, N. Slater, DeGroot, Charles Austin (Coach)
Bon allez une fois n'est pas coutume je vais faire le malin. J'ai découvert Carroll en 1991 quand nous écrivions "les stars du rugby" chez Bordas, Jacques Rivière et moi. Effectivement, grande et belle histoire. Nous avons aussi un petit passage sur son cas dans "un siècle de rugby". Et lorsque j'ai effectué un reportage en Californie avant le Mondial 2003, j'ai rencontré l'un des membres du conseil d'administration de l'université de Stanford, fan de rugby, qui ne connaissait même pas l'histoire. Du coup, je suis passé pour un érudit et il m'a ouvert les portes de toutes les bonnes institutions de San Francisco.
PS: il doit même y avoir un référence sur Carroll dans mon livre "les oblongues", p. 119.
En fait, c'est grace à Carroll(ou à cause de lui), que l'International Board n'a pas voulu que le rugby reste aux J.O...
Posted by: comme fou | 29/07/2009 at 23:58
Et bien voilà de nouvelles lectures quil me faudra découvrir ! je ne suis quun novice en matière dHistoire - et surtout dhistoires... - du jeu... encore quelques centaines de livres à lire...
(note de lecture : y a t-il matière à faire un index des livres de rugby français à la manière du compendium que je feuillette souvent ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rugby-Compendium-Authoritative-Literature-Football/dp/0712310967 )
Celà dit, et sans trop savoir pourquoi, je suis assez séduit par lhistoire du rugby US (enfin ... ni plus ni moins que le rugby Français, NZ, Australien, SudAf, Gallois ou Anglais...mais je ne connais presque rien au rugby Ecossais, Irlandais, Argentin ou Japonais...). Jai eu le plaisir de participer cet hiver à liconographie dun film sur le rugby US... à sortir soon... voilà le teaser www.agiantawakens.com ... ce sera lobjet de mon prochain billet avant daller à la plage !
Cheers !
F-
Posted by: Frederic (www.rugby-pioneers.com) | 30/07/2009 at 08:55
Well, we're two...
Incidentally, I talked about him, too. Don't know if you understand Italian language. However, it's only a brief "did you know?" article, nothing compared to your excellent work.
http://www.sportvintage.it/2009/05/20/un-rugbista-che-vale-due-medaglie-doro/
CT
Posted by: Christian | 30/07/2009 at 17:10
Great website... bookmarked ! thanks for letting me know...
Here is the always-funny-google-translation in English : http://bit.ly/185eCe
Tiny detail : in my books, Carroll was born in nov.1888... hence 20 years at the Olympic Games
Posted by: Frederic (www.rugby-pioneers.com) | 30/07/2009 at 17:49
Il existe un ouvrage qui recense la plupart des livres français de rugby, éécrit par un type de Montauban dont j'ai oublié le nom. Mais je dois pouvoir retrouver la chose...
Posted by: richard escot | 30/07/2009 at 23:54
I think the second photo (the 1924's one) zoomed on the wrong man. Isn't Carroll the third player from the right in the high row, id est the man who has just half face viewable in that zoomed photo? His "large" ears are irrefutable!
Posted by: Paco Pachensis | 02/08/2009 at 17:01
he ! he ! you might be right... Ive spent long minutes with my pictures arguing about the length of the players ears to identify Carroll irrefutably... without being able to make it 100% sure... and waiting for someone with accurate eyes to raise the point... well done Paco!
Posted by: Frederic (www.rugby-pioneers.com) | 03/08/2009 at 18:53
No.The man with half face shown is my grandfather,Norman B. Slater
Posted by: Steve Slater | 20/08/2009 at 05:23
You have on this page
first is the 1920 US team touring in Toulouse, France, after the Olympics in Belgium
I think this is in fact the US side that played France on 10th Oct 1920 in Paris. 4 of the players listed on the picture only ever played this one game for the USA. They were Davis, Wallace Vidal and Winston. The names are slightly wrong and Vidal's and Winston's names are missing but I believe it is Gene Vidal standing 4th left (the text has ,,) and I'm not sure who Hazeltine is!
Posted by: Patrick Casey | 06/05/2011 at 14:43
I must correct myself. I have proof that the players name missing (ie between ,,) is James Wallace Winston.
All the players in the photo played in that 10th Oct 1920 match. The one exception is Vidal who played but is not in the photo.
Posted by: Patrick Casey | 19/05/2011 at 14:29
Hi Patrick
Very good catch about the US team...
Theres something special about these US - French fixtures after ww1... starting with these interallied games in July 1919: possibly the most violent international game played in France before modern times. If you can read French, there are some modern histotical studies about it.
BTW knowing your interest about international players who died in ww1, you could check this thread (in French...) on a French ww1 forum
http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/forum-pages-histoire/Generalites/rugbymen-grande-guerre-sujet_10706_1.htm
Sincerely
Frederic
Posted by: Frederic (www.rugby-pioneers.com) | 21/05/2011 at 20:02
Hi Frederic. It turns out Bill Mallon was right after all and Carroll was still only 16 versus Wales 1908. Youngest Test player ever by about 115 days. His real birth date is on his US passport application and the ship passenger list going to Antwerp 1920, plus his 1917 US draft registration card. I have copies. There's no disputing it. The ARU got the wrong Daniel (BRANDON, not Brendan) Carroll for its 1887 birth certificate.
Posted by: Robert Messenger | 02/03/2013 at 10:50